Въпрос относно вдигане мощноста на дизелова Джета

Теми свързани с всякакви перформанс модификации и промени по двигател, ходовата част и купе
Потребителски аватар
trunner
Мнения: 1624
Регистриран на: Нед 07 яну 2007 12:38
Автомобил:
Двигател:
Местоположение: Силистра
Контакти:

Мнениеот trunner » Вто 04 сеп 2007 5:06


Spectre™ написа:Ами въпроса е, че двигателя е слънце.., но му трябва още малко, за да е доволен човека..., поне да си дърпа ремаркето...

Vizor много ще съм ти благодарен ако го откриеш.., сега ще потърся и колегата faint да видим какво ще каже....



П.П. - ако се движите със 140 по магистрала Хемус и видите червена Джета с широки брони и ремарке да ви задминава.., значи това е свекар ми.... :lol:

Сори за спама ама той не ти ле води тъст?!? :roll:




Потребителски аватар
Vizor
Изгубена душа
Мнения: 12509
Регистриран на: Съб 04 мар 2006 16:01
Автомобил: Subaru Forester XT
Двигател:
Местоположение: София
Контакти:

Мнениеот Vizor » Вто 04 сеп 2007 8:06


баце неможах да намеря темичката за жалост но намерих снимки от 2-те коли

Изображение

Изображение

Изображение

Изображение

Изображение


Потребителски аватар
Geoptter
Мнения: 23
Регистриран на: Нед 12 авг 2007 21:54
Автомобил: Golf mk3
Двигател: AFT
Местоположение: София
Контакти:

Мнениеот Geoptter » Вто 04 сеп 2007 11:05


принципно щом е дизел би трябвало някаде при двигалтеля да има някакво винче дето вгида оборотите и мощноста :) ама на джетата нз каде е


Потребителски аватар
rusiq_24
Мнения: 1660
Регистриран на: Чет 30 мар 2006 14:49
Автомобил:
Двигател:
Местоположение: Стара Загора

Мнениеот rusiq_24 » Вто 04 сеп 2007 12:06


Грам не разбирам от дизели и може би ще кажа някоя глупост сега ама аз ще предложа а тези които знаят ще кажат дали става понеже си мисля че това е най лесният и безобиден вариант който може да се направи.Значи понеже турбинирането е доста сложен процес и трябва и помпата да се сменя а тя не е от най евтините както и турбото и останалите неща си мисля че едно долнище от 1.9 ще засили колата доста приятно както и въртящият момент но не знам дали долнището от 1.9 ще стане на 1.6.Иначе до 300-400лв. мах ще излезе цялата работа а ако се направи цялостна ревизия която е много препоръчителна до 500лв ще има човека мотор който ще надживее купето :wink:


Потребителски аватар
Spectre™
Мнения: 1631
Регистриран на: Пет 02 дек 2005 20:51
Автомобил:
Двигател:
Местоположение: село София
Контакти:

Мнениеот Spectre™ » Вто 04 сеп 2007 16:12


trunner написа:..........



Объркал съм се... :oops: :lol:
Vizor благодаря ти... за снимките..., трябва да хвана някой познат да ми разясни какво е правено, че много не отбирам така.. от пръв поглед... Това колко коня ли е станало... след тая намеса... :gruebel


На rusiq_24 идеята много ми хареса, а за 400-500 лв мисля, че си заслужава... стига да е възможно това... (тука трябва някой по знаещ да каже.. :) )


Иначе на магистралата тоя мотор не е жален и въпреки това, нямаме никакви проблеми с него... Вече е на 420 000 км.. без сериозни ремонти..., само на добра подръжка... В последните 2 години е ползван доста за "строителен" автомобил както се изрази един колега по горе..., но си му трябва още маааалко кончета... 10 - 20, ако е възможно.... :roll:


Потребителски аватар
parazita
Мнения: 37
Регистриран на: Сря 29 авг 2007 18:33
Автомобил:
Двигател:
Местоположение: Варна

Мнениеот parazita » Вто 04 сеп 2007 19:23


След ГОЛЯМ СПОР С БАЩАМИ с който стигнахме до взнаимно решение и така бяхме направили за да си реставрираме 1.6 дизелчето на Траспортера които имахме .....
.... за тези пари си земи един чисто НОВ БЛОК за двг-то сложи си оригиналните буталца дето са ти с чисто нови сигменти един сшлайф на главата задължително , защото винаги се измята гарнитурката и си ОК след 2000 км разработка ...
и така и си го продадохме след сумати и километри и мангала още го туркаля без нищо да е пипнал ...........


spensnqta
Мнения: 27
Регистриран на: Пон 23 апр 2007 15:33
Автомобил:
Двигател:
Местоположение: Стара Загора

Мнениеот spensnqta » Чет 13 сеп 2007 11:47


На скоро и аз се занимавах с тая работа само че с 1.9л и ми дадоха някое друго цайтче ще ти ги напиша.http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1964259 като трябва да си свалиш и картера зада провериш за маслените дюзу и за буталата какви са. Разгледай хубаво саийта и ще разбереш.


Потребителски аватар
faint
Мнения: 704
Регистриран на: Вто 23 май 2006 23:40
Автомобил:
Двигател:
Местоположение: Бургас
Контакти:

Мнениеот faint » Пет 14 сеп 2007 11:14


Абе на 1.6 може да се вдигне мощността и без принудително пълнене (турбо)


Потребителски аватар
faint
Мнения: 704
Регистриран на: Вто 23 май 2006 23:40
Автомобил:
Двигател:
Местоположение: Бургас
Контакти:

Мнениеот faint » Пет 14 сеп 2007 11:16


Introduction

Make your NA diesel (non-turbo) a faster car - an oxymoron? the impossible? Not really, NA (naturally aspirated) diesels can be modified to move a bit quicker than stock.

If you have any questions or suggestions regarding this post, feel free to contribute!

If you're confused by some acronyms like EGT, WOT, NA, etc. open this page to decipher the acronyms.

Basic Performance Concept

By increasing both airflow and fuel flow through your engine you'll get power that's efficient to an extent. Increasing airflow in a turbo diesel is most commonly done by increasing turbo boost, which is easy and inexpensive to do. Increasing airflow in a NA diesel is however limited or costly. Don't fret, there's still room for improvement in NA diesels.

It is possible to gain power by just increasing fuel flow (with nothing done to airflow), however that will potentially increase exhaust smoke and also increase EGT (exhaust gas temperature). Higher EGT indicates higher temperature in the engine internals.

Rule of Thumb

The exhaust smoke should not be more than a light grey haze. Too much smoke may indicate high EGT, blowby, etc... not a good idea unless you have an EGT gauge to keep an eye on. Note: ULSD is becoming more common and it reduces visible exhaust smoke so it can be deceiving. The maximum safe EGT for an NA diesel might be 1,400 degrees F. The maximum safe EGT for turbo diesels is around 1,600 degrees F (measured inside exhaust manifold) because they have different engine components that tolerate more heat from turbocharging. An EGT gauge is not required for virtually all airflow enhancements and some fueling enhancements (to an extent).

---------------

The following topics are covered: MaintenanceAirflowFuelChassis/OtherBig Power

Maintenance

1. Do a compression test. It's nice to see how healthy the engine currently is. Higher compression makes a noticable difference in a NA's peppiness.. turbo diesels not so much (while under boost).

2. If the fuel injector nozzles are old and worn, then replace them or pop-test them if you can. New ones will restore power, economy, and reduce smoke (from improved atomization).

3. Use decent oil, ensure that the headgasket or any engine seals are not leaking, etc. Generally, the engine should be in good condition before you begin modifying. Any VW Tech or mechanic familiar with VW diesels can do a check up. This section is purposely kept short because this thread is about power enhancements, not how to maintain a stock diesel.

Airflow

All airflow upgrades mentioned here are safe and will not increase engine temperature (indicated by EGT).

1. The exhaust manifold upgrade that VW 8v counter-flow gassers have will fit any 8v NA diesel as well.

2. Make sure the air intake filter is clean to ensure no restriction in the airway. If you're curious enough (I haven't personally tried this), you can install a sensitive vacuum gauge between the air filter and the air intake runners to see how much vacuum is produced from the engine trying to suck in air.

3. Many intake piping I've seen stop short, so install intake piping like this for a better cold-air / ram-air effect. It may not suddenly increase power, but it can decrease smoke a little on the highway. A recommended mod because it's inexpensive.

Click image to enlarge
Изображение Изображение Изображение Изображение
Note: Not all setups shown above are optimal, they just show different designs. When building a cold air intake, consider the following: 1. Place the inlet where the coldest and strongest airflow might be found i.e. in front of vehicle and 2. Minimize intake heat soak generated by nearby hot sources, like the radiator. Heat soak can be reduced using heat shields.

4. Camshaft upgrade from http://www.passengerdiesel.com. This seems to work well in turbo diesels, but I haven't personally seen results in NA diesels.

5. Port & polish intake and exhaust ports. It's fairly labour intensive or costly, but if the head needs to be removed for a headgasket replacement or a rebuild, then it may be worth getting a port & polish job done.

Fuel

1. See fuel injectors under Maintenance. Safe for EGT with no change in airflow

2. Advance static fuel pump timing. On 1.6L turbo diesels 1.05mm is the ideal advancing spot, but the NA diesel fuel injectors have a lower breaking pressure (NA 130bar vs. TD 155 bar) and I can't recall the optimal timing at this time. A slightly advanced timing can improve cold starts as well (if the cold-start pull cable is unused). Safe for EGT with no change in airflow

Too much timing advance can increase peak cylinder pressure & reduce efficiency. Don't go too wild on timing advance as it could possibly do some damage.

New 3. If applicable, advance dynamic pump timing - described here. Safe for EGT with no change in airflow

4. Look at the throttle lever on the top of the fuel injection pump, swing it all the way to WOT with your hand, notice that it may be stopped by a screw. This is called the "max throttle screw." Back out the screw a bit to let the throttle swing further at WOT. This will result in more fuel & power on demand. More fuel will increase exhaust smoke, but improving the engine airflow will reduce smoke. Will increase EGT

5. For experienced users only: Do the governor mod in the fuel injection pump. Click here for more details. It increases fuel delivery as RPM increases. Decent power improvement. Will increase EGT

6. Send your fuel injection pump (or a spare pump) to Giles. His pump really enhances performance; this may be the most significant power mod you'll see in a NA diesel. Here's a testimonial. If your pump needs a rebuild, then his service is often recommended. With this pump you can disregard modifications #2-5 above.
Bonus: The pump can be modified to tolerate BioDiesel and today's ULSD (Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel). Safe for EGT regardless of airflow, as the pump is professionally configured and tested in many standard NA diesels

7. If the vehicle still isn't smoking much, then turn in the fuel quantity screw on the side of the injection pump to increase fuel delivery. Use the Bentley manual to find this screw. Will increase EGT

8. Forget about propane unless you can set it up inexpensively, it is not effective on IDIs according to Mr. Sharkey. Maybe a 5-8% increase in power at best.

Chassis/Other

1. Get the flywheel lightened. It will improve response during low RPM, especially when accelerating from a stop.

Dave, from Passenger Performance, his personal preference is a flywheel weight of 6 pounds. But anything between 6, 7 and 8 pounds will work. He advised removing the 1" thick ring on the pressure plate side to 0.050" of the flywheel gear teeth, I think, yields 8 pounds. He then removes material on the other side down to the level of the bolt holes to get down to 6 pounds.

2. Suspension and brakes. If the brakes already stop fairly strong and without heat fade (concerning performance), then it may be good enough for spirited driving. A good sport suspension upgrade can make driving the vehicle a pleasure.

3. Ceramic coating. This could be inexpensive if your NA engine is being rebuilt. Do a search in the IDI forum to find threads discussing this topic. Here's one where 935racer outlines what internal parts might be useful to coat and what parts might not.

Big Power

Now.. onto 'big power' enhancements. Strongly recommended is an EGT (Exhaust Gas Temperature) kit (Autometer Pyrometer, for example, which is available at almost any car parts store) tapped into the exhaust manifold:

Nitrous Oxide

Nitrous oxide and turbo-diesel fuel injection pump. Install the two, pipe the nitrous oxide gas into the intake and pipe another one to the LDA device on top of the turbo-diesel fuel injection pump. The LDA senses boost pressure and responds by increasing fuel delivery in the fuel pump. Instead of receiving boost pressure from a turbocharger, it will receive pressure from nitrous oxide gas for the same result.

For best fuel results between NA and nitrous, send your injection pump (even a NA one) to Giles. He will install a LDA on the pump and set the LDA to increase fuel by 100%, while fueling without LDA action will remain stock. In other words, he will turn your regular NA pump into a TD (turbo diesel) pump that responds to changes in forced air pressure.

You may easily see at least double the stock power output on demand. Nitrous Oxide is also cool (as in cold) unlike the compressed air from turbo, so this may be safe for EGT.

Propane

See Propane under the Fuel section in this post.

*** The following modification is still controversial - some feel that NA diesels (except for the 1.9L D, which is already turbo-ready) should not be turbocharged. You make your own decision. ***

Turbocharging

It will be easiest to adapt turbo parts from a 1.6 turbo diesel. Even the turbo + exhaust manifold from a 1.9 turbo diesel will fit. 1.6 turbos are generally bigger (MUCH bigger than any TDI turbo), with no maximum boost until around 3,000 RPM. The 1.9 TD turbos are smaller and although it may be a better choice for daily driving, it will cause higher EGT due to extra backpressure from the smaller turbine. We want to *minimize* EGT for NA engines.

Most importantly, add GOOD intercooling! And avoid smoking much, if at all (or go by your EGT gauge - it's so much easier to install the EGT sensor while you have your turbo exhaust manifold sitting on a bench!). NA diesel longblocks lack piston cooling oil jets and have weaker metal alloys that are less tolerable to heat from turbocharging. So, make sure you have intercooling. If you leave it at stock turbo-diesel power (68hp), it should be good enough for longevity.

A boost gauge is not required unless you're going to change the boost level by bypassing or messing with the turbo's wastegate, or if you just want to see if the turbo's working normally.

eldorado posted a good guideline in maintaining a NA diesel's longevity with turbocharging:

If you've increased the fueling then running more boost will actually help your engine...diesel's run the exact opposite of gassers...the leaner you run a gas engine the higher the egt's. The leaner you run a diesel..ie no smoke the LESS your egt temps will be. when you see smoke..you'll also notice your EGT temps going up.

You will not have any HG issues that is different than a td....they use the same HG, bolts, torques etc..The only issue you'll have is with the pistons...since they're not being cooled by oil. Youy can really help the problem by adding a big oil cooler like the volvo unit. Your oil temps should never be over 210F ever with the volvo oil cooler setup..it's that good, it was made for a 2.4/2.5 gasser that runs hotter turbo temps.

Once you get past running 10-12psi of boost, you definitely need to add an intercooler..this will help your egt temps and give more power to boot.

The most critical part of a turboed N/A diesel is the EGT's...never go past 1400F pre-turbo. I had an original Callaway turbo diesel n/a engine, I put over 120K miles on it (rebuilt engine) and when I gave it away it was still running strong.

You should be able to run 15psi of intercooled boost with no trouble, add fuel until you see a max temp of 1400F and then back it off a hair and you should be good to go. The only thing that will kill the engine is EGT' temps over 1400F and super oil temps. When you're flogging the engine..I would only watch the EGT gauge.


Потребителски аватар
Spectre™
Мнения: 1631
Регистриран на: Пет 02 дек 2005 20:51
Автомобил:
Двигател:
Местоположение: село София
Контакти:

Мнениеот Spectre™ » Пет 14 сеп 2007 11:40


faint благодаря ти.. :bowdown


Потребителски аватар
faint
Мнения: 704
Регистриран на: Вто 23 май 2006 23:40
Автомобил:
Двигател:
Местоположение: Бургас
Контакти:

Мнениеот faint » Пет 14 сеп 2007 13:42


за нищо :)
е разбира се ако се заиграете с турбо ефекта ще е по-голям..
има доста модове, които могат да се приложат върху ГНП на 1.6/1.9 ТД, с които се вдига мощността значително

ето един жив пример за това:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AHriCwrWnY



Върни се в “Силов тунинг”

Кой е на линия

Потребители, разглеждащи този форум: Няма регистрирани потребители и 33 госта